Transcript generated via AI - Not 100% accurate

Justin: 0:00

Today on amplified whole health,

Dan: 0:02

I would encourage. Anyone at any level in the organization any industry they happen to be working in, find a mentor? I just think it's just that important. I know in my career it has absolutely helped me. No question about it. I would not be where I am today in a position I hold or without a mentor. Yeah, just great guidance along the way, for sure.

Justin: 0:40

Welcome to the amplified whole health podcast, where personal and organizational health meat. I'm your host, Justin Collier. And my goal is to bring you insightful interviews with business owners and leaders from a variety of different industries. We'll be talking about employee development, leadership, company, culture, and quality products and services and how they drive success in business. Thanks for joining me and let's get started. Welcome the amplified whole health podcast excited that you joined us today. And just want to remind people to take a look and like us and follow us on Facebook, et cetera. Today I have Dan Jenkins in studio with me and Dan you're a senior director of sales for the Southeast, for a company by the name of Cepheids. You

Dan: 1:31

got it. All

Justin: 1:32

correct. Nice. And how long have you been with this organization

Dan: 1:37

doing with Sophia now? 11 years. Okay. So long time.

Justin: 1:41

Nice. And what keeps you

Dan: 1:43

there? You know, really it's about honestly, it's about the people. We just have a great culture within the organization and a lot of really talented people, dedicated professional people. And really that is, I think that's paramount and that's really, what's kept me there for 11 years. And the side benefit is we also have terrific products that we sell into growing markets, which has always kind of fun too, but it's really about the people. So the people that have

Justin: 2:17

Kept you in it. Yeah.

Dan: 2:18

You really have

Justin: 2:19

no, I guess what is the organization

Dan: 2:23

do? Yeah, so a little background on Cepheus. So what does Sophia? So Sophia is a molecular diagnostics company and what's interesting is prior to the pandemic, not many. People knew even what molecular testing was or PCR testing now, PCR and molecular has become more of a household name than ever before. And so one of the tests that has helped put Cepheids on the map more recently is the COVID test we sell. And, but prior to that, w, We have products that cut across really infectious disease testing predominantly that's sold in hospitals mainly. And then we also have what we call our non-acute or physician's office business that we sell molecular diagnostics tests though. Wow. Yeah, it's a very cool industry and it's really growing. So have you always

Justin: 3:19

been in sales?

Dan: 3:21

Yeah. Sales and sales management. Looking back over my career though, I did a stint in corporate training for about a year. And then I also was in what we call corporate accounts for two years, but really have been in commercial sales, my entire career between sales and sales leadership.

Justin: 3:42

And always in this

Dan: 3:43

industry or this field always in this field. Okay. Always in this field, different segments of generally more broadly it's laboratory diagnostics. Yes, I I just happen to be a molecular. But prior to that, it was in other areas of lab diagnosis. Yeah.

Justin: 4:00

Yeah. So you, the people keep you there, but I'm curious. What about the role is exciting for

Dan: 4:05

you? Yeah I mean, thankfully working for Sephora, it is it's just been an opportunity for me to continue to grow my career. So 11 years ago, just as a frame of reference, when I started. We were probably about $180 million global company. We just finished the year a, a little over $2 billion in sales. So we have grown a lot in, you know, 10 to 11 years time. And so with that, there's just been a lot of opportunity within your organization to. To grow and expand and lead in different areas. So that's really wince. What's been a lot of fun about my journey.

Justin: 4:51

Yeah. You're a sales leader, and how many folks do you have that ultimately will roll

Dan: 4:56

up to you? There'll be 60, about 60 people, 60 people roll

Justin: 5:01

up to you. And I guess maybe my first question around that part of it would be, how do you engage with that many

Dan: 5:10

folks? Yeah. So that's a, that can be a challenge for sure. Of course. It's not a sales org of hundreds or thousands, but even with 60 people is still alive. And what I generally try to do is to have routine. Calls are at least on a monthly basis at an area level, as you pointed out. I look after the Southeast area in the U S and that's really important just to, to keep people like you've mentioned engaged in just so everyone on the team understands. The direction that we're moving in or a goals and objectives that we need to be achieving in a given year. And that's what I found is really critical is just to have an open line of communication for sure. And in what I also do is hold routine staff meetings. And so the people that directly, or from me, my direct reports are always. We're very much aligned with what the priorities are you different corporate initiatives that we're after in the marketplace. And so that helps us. Wow.

Justin: 6:14

So you've got, you know, these 60 folks you know, they're all remote obviously today, but I'm assuming they were all remote before. Yeah. And we're primarily an inside or an outside

Dan: 6:23

sales. It's all outside

Justin: 6:25

sales. So it's an outside sales model. So it was probably, I mean, even before COVID you probably very rarely got together as a group. I mean, it was probably maybe once or twice a year.

Dan: 6:36

A couple of times a year. Yeah. That's it. Two or three times a year. Yes. Get

Justin: 6:39

together. Yeah. But this isn't really, this is kind of the same thing for you.

Dan: 6:44

Yeah, you but I will, the last time we were all together was in January of 2020, right before the pandemic cat, we had a global sales meeting and none of us knew at the time, of course at the world was going to change, you know, 30 days later. And since that time we have all been remote and we're doing a lot of things though, righteous, virtually, which we never did before as an organization. The rest of the world. But it's been challenging though. And in a lot of respects just to keep employees engaged and just have more routine dialogue and discussion, you know, with folks. So they don't feel like they're completely remote, even though we all are so trying to make sure that we're doing our best to just keep people involved and let them know. The success we're having in a market is really pretty phenomenal when you think about it. And we want to make sure that people feel good about what their accomplishments have been over the years time. Yeah.

Justin: 7:43

When you have, let's just say you want to get into sales an organization like yours. What would you tell someone who's new coming into the role, brand new, maybe they're just out

Dan: 7:55

of college. Yeah. And that's a great point in it. A lot of times I'll be asked that very question. And what my guidance always is to start with working for a medical distributor. And so why do I say that the reason is because medical distributors, they carry a very broad range of products that they're typically selling into hospital or into a physician's office, lab or clinic. And that really allows. Folks to just get a broad based level of experience and exposure to different products. And then from there they can start thinking about, okay this is the segment of diagnostic set. I really like something that intrigues me, I'm interested in. And then from there, they'll typically at that point, move into a diagnostic company, focused on that product segment. That's generally the guidance and probably the best approach. How important do you

Justin: 8:48

feel it is for someone to really be excited about the products that they're selling?

Dan: 8:53

Either use everything. I take a mix. It's just a level of passion and enthusiasm that you have behind your product just makes all the difference in the world. And you know, something customers can see through it. If you're. Not passionate about what you're doing and what you're selling. You're probably in the wrong job. You'd probably work for the wrong company. Yeah. Critical. Yeah, I mean, that's what we though for, we're looking for folks that have some experience in medical diagnostics that want to join our company. We're looking for that passion, that enthusiasm, that out of box thinking that's really critical. And the other thing I would say is it's not just about. People that are applying to work for Sephora that need to always have medical diagnostics experience. In fact, we actually are looking more broadly to more general healthcare experience and it in successful in, in another role, it could be pharmaceutical sales just by way of example. Sure. Or device sales is another area that we'll, we'll select from,

Justin: 9:56

but it's just important to have a background is a bit diverse, you know, as you kind of

Dan: 10:00

get started that's right. That's exactly right. Yep. Absolutely.

Justin: 10:03

So what does employee development look like as a sales person? How do you develop a sales person?

Dan: 10:10

Yeah. Yeah. So that, another very good question. So we spend a lot of time training our sales team. And so what does that look like? You know, oftentimes it's. It's the the tools that, that we use to, to run and navigate the business and look at funnel health and activity and all that kind of stuff, which is our CRM system. But a lot of it is product focused. So you need to know the product, you need to do the competition. You need to know. The market that we're serving. You need to know the personas of the, the customer base that you're calling on. One of the things about Sephora that is with a very broad portfolio of tests that we sell into the market, you could be calling on the emergency department. And then leave the emergency department and go to pharmacy and leave pharmacy and go to lab and leave lab and go to a, see infectious disease physician. So you need to know how that product fits into all of these different segments of the market in each persona has a different need likely. So it's a lot of training early on. Wow.

Justin: 11:16

You know, thinking about the sales process and the fact that you have outside sales folks, you know, that you used to be able to go onsite and then, like you said, sit down and talk to a physician or whomever, and now that has completely changed for them. Yeah. So this world that they were used to being able to navigate has now changed. And how did you coach people through.

Dan: 11:40

That change. Yeah. So what we wound up doing is spent a lot of time getting really good at virtual sales calls. So it has changed our industry really with the last year's time. And so we provided. Training on how to conduct a virtual sales call. You know, I mean, before the pandemic, nobody, we really didn't use the other tools that are out there to conduct virtual sales calls at all. Because as you're pointing out, we should go face to face and sit down with a customer. I'll look them up. You know, I'd, I, none of that for the last 12 months. And so we really had to respond to that. And yeah, we, we had several training programs that were to our training organization that were directed at exactly that. How do you engage? People remotely, how do you move a sales process forward when you're not, face-to-face sitting in the same room and it's, in some ways it's a lot more challenging. In other ways you could be a lot more efficient though with your time. Yeah. Because you're not behind a wheel and you're not driving from account to account you're in your home office. So you can actually conduct if you're really good about it and strategic about it, you can get a lot more done in a much shorter timeframe. With virtual sales calls. How important

Justin: 12:58

was strategy and leadership in that transition?

Dan: 13:02

It was, it was critical. It was critical for sure. And you know, like many companies that were faced with the same challenges there were fits and starts. I wouldn't say it was a perfect implementation, when I look back over the last year we're really proud about what we accomplished. It was very, very challenging because if you think about the portfolio of products that we sell, COVID. Became obviously far and away the number one test, but every, you know, we had calls with us senators. We had calls with congressmen. We had calls with the white house directly that everybody wanted to have access to this test. And we like every other one, a medical diagnostic company could not keep up with the level of demand. And so that in and of itself created challenges that. We really didn't have a lot of experience with prior to the pandemic. Yeah.

Justin: 14:03

And so all of a sudden, now you're learning new things and trying to pivot and make new decisions. And you've talked a little bit about employee development and. You know what it's like to help employees grow and the training process or whatever. How about for yourself? What does employee development look like for someone at your level? Sure.

Dan: 14:23

So we have development goals every year. So I'll work with the gentleman that I've worked directly for. And we'll come up with two to three. We don't try not to boil the ocean and have. 10 or 15 development goals. It's typically two or three development goals that are very time oriented. They're very specific. And they're achievable. And what we'll do is we'll figure, w we start thinking about what is a stretch goal or stretch assignment, like something that I should be doing to elevate myself my visibility within the organization. Know, or something that I just find in myself that I need to likely learn more about. And so we'll write a couple of development goals to achieve that within typically a 12 month timeframe, but it's a really good direct interaction with. You're a leader. So in my case, this gentleman I worked for, and that happens every year and then periodically during the year we'll sit down and we'll go through those development goals and just to make sure that you're in my case, I'm staying. Yeah.

Justin: 15:31

I mean, I'm assuming you probably follow so a similar process with your director path slowly.

Dan: 15:36

It's exactly right. It's it starts at the L one level works all the way down, to the field. So everybody has the same. The same objective, that same objective, but the same requirement to have developmental objectives. That's correct. Yeah.

Justin: 15:49

Yeah. So we'll take, maybe we'll pivot a little bit. You mentioned the importance of people. I'm curious. How important has culture been for you? And your direct reports, or let's say anybody who rolls up to you, how important is

Dan: 16:07

that culture sure is extremely important. I mean, in my mind, if you don't have the right kind of corporate culture, you're likely not going to be successful. You're not going to retain top talent. You're not going to attract top talent to your organization as you continue to grow. So coach are really, to me is is one of the, the critical. Areas that you really need to focus on in, for me in looking at the culture of the company that I'm with it, a lot of it boils down to trust of leadership. If there's not trust leadership team then likely you're not going to do as well. In the market and you're not going to be as successful and it's going to cost you more. So I really do firmly believe culture is that important. And I'm really lucky. I worked for a company that has a great great culture. Are

Justin: 17:02

you, do you believe that culture is a top down thing or a bottom up thing?

Dan: 17:06

I think the tone is set at the highest levels in the organization. So in my case would be the presidency yeah. In a down. But I really see it. I really do believe that in my role, I am also tone setter. You set the cultural tone for the organization. Anybody that's in people, leadership specifically. I think it really has that responsibility has set the tone for your organization, whatever organization, how big or how broad it is. It doesn't really matter, but they need to be setting the proper tone and create a positive culture. Sure. So in

Justin: 17:42

a lot of ways, it's really the executive leadership team kind of sets that, that initial culture, if you will, that initial tone and then everyone else has a direct

Dan: 17:54

role. Absolutely. Exactly. Right. So when I look at who's leading our company, it's very much open, honest two-way communication. That's that really is the culture. It's a culture of innovation. So no matter where you are in the hierarchy or the organization, you know, that is the standard. Is that you're going to be open and honest. You're going to be as transparent as you possibly can be in that all of us have a responsibility to innovate. And continue to do better every day. And that really is part of the culture of the company I'm with. And probably what again, what keeps me there for a long period of time at this point.

Justin: 18:40

Yeah. When I think about innovation and I think a lot of us think about innovation, more at a product level, what does innovation look like at a sales level?

Dan: 18:49

Yeah, it's just thinking differently and thinking outside the box and challenging yourself to to look at opportunities differently and pull back. Sometimes I think what happens salespeople, in myself included is you're looking at. Maybe one piece of an opportunity let's say to a hospital or health system and not pulling back and looking at the bigger picture of how big can this be. And we have a mantra where we kind of said, we want it all and not to be completely selfish about it, but we have products that cut across the entire health system enterprise. And so we really believe that we have a solution to do exactly that. And I think from an innovative standpoint, it's up to. A salesperson or a sales leader up and down the organization to just look at their business differently and challenge themselves and challenge others that are on the team to, to think bigger into taking a more strategic approach to opportunities versus just looking at a specific product. Yeah,

Justin: 19:53

absolutely. Yeah. How important is the cross-functional team for you all? I mean when I think cross-functional, I think your sales, engineering resources or your support organization, or customer care, whatever labels you might have for folks. You're how important is that? Cross-functional

Dan: 20:15

culture. It's another thing that you have to have strong. A strong working relationship and collaboration across the organization. And speaking for somebody that's been in, in sales and sales leadership, my entire career, I would not have ever been successful without working closely with our field service engineers, our technical application, support folks, our order management people internally, our legal department. I mean, the list goes a business operations that, that goes on and on right in any organization are so many people that. That are also key to your success. So the sales folks, right? Always, you know, you get up on stage every year, if you do well, and you get out of boys and you go to PE club and do all these fancy things, but, and it's great, but there's so many people. That have enabled you to get up on stage and be that successful that we should remember that. Cause it's, I'll be, it's just not one person or even a small group of people. It takes literally a team of support people behind us to enable us to be successful. Now you can't go at it alone and be successful no way. No way never happened.

Justin: 21:23

Yeah. So tell maybe younger sales reps or folks that are new to your organization? About engaging with those folks that

Dan: 21:33

are cross-functional. Yeah. I mean, that's one of the that will do for any new hire is new hires will understand very clearly, very early in their career journey that there are other functional groups within the organization that you really have to get to know and get to know quickly, you know, and understand what their challenges are. So what also. This is prior to COVID, obviously that there'll be a ride along. So we would have a salesperson right along with the field service engineer. We have a ride along with an application specialist, so they just get a sense for what the role is within the organization for that specific person. And I think that really helps, or the help does a couple of things. It does build the, the spirit of collaboration and it builds understanding. And I think it just helps. Salespeople. They really appreciate that. It does take a lot of people for them to be successful in the industry. And I think that's that to me is really important

Justin: 22:38

walking in someone else's shoes and absolutely empathy and sympathy for where they're at and what it is that they're trying to accomplish in their role. Exactly. And then how you can help

Dan: 22:49

them. Also be successful, right? We want the entire team to be successful. It sounds maybe a little bit corny, but it really is true. We do. I mean, that's one of the things when you get back to the culture that we're talking about just a few minutes ago, that I really find different about the company I happen to be with, is that. No one tries to hold the withhold information to just have themselves be successful. We're really collaborative. And that was the other point I probably should have mentioned earlier is that we will periodically actually once a month, we get on the phone with a large group of people and we'll go through opportunity reviews and we get strengthened numbers and you get. 40 or 50 people on a call and look at specific sales opportunities. And because we don't know at all, but you want to be able to get advice from others that are. Have been in the industry for awhile, have different thoughts and ideas on how to approach certain opportunity or things that we haven't even thought about as a smaller team. So it's strengthened numbers and that's what also is enabled us to be successful for sure.

Justin: 23:57

Yeah. Engaging other people to come up with ideas of how can you can approach and solve a problem that isn't necessarily related to your teams. That's right. Yeah. Being able

Dan: 24:08

to share those ideas. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's sounds like a great idea. It's right.

Justin: 24:17

How I think about importance of products and services and you know, what it is that you're actually selling. And we talked about the importance of of believing in, how important is quality when it comes to that equation?

Dan: 24:35

Yeah. W well quality, obviously another key ingredient to success of any business. We happen to really pride ourselves in the fact that we do develop a manufacturer likely the highest quality product, but one of the highest quality products that are on the market said that makes our job to sell easier to write. It just does by nature. But quality what's interesting. Again, I reflect back on the last year, years time that. And it's been all over the news, right? So there have been other tests for the pandemic they were just talking about earlier. COVID that those tests are not very reliable. They're just not, and without going through all the technology differences, they're just not in, in folks know that in consumers. No, it now, so what's interesting to me is that quality has become much more important than price. Price is really not nearly as important as the quality of the product, particularly in, in the industry that that I could picture now in what's helped us really is the tests that are for COVID specifically that are more inferior than what we produce and what we manufacturer in now, consumers recognize the difference of a molecular test versus a different. Kind of test and it was real interesting to me and being in this business for as long as I have, you have consumers that will go to a physician and say, I want a PCR. Molecular test a year ago. No, not any idea what that was none. Quality is really, I think it's always been important, but I think the changes that we've seen in the market in the last 12 months had put a finer point on this notion of quality and how important really is and why it matters and why it matters. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Justin: 26:34

Because it is one of those things where I want, especially right now, you can appreciate why quality is challenging. I mean, all of a sudden you have to ramp up and produce at larger volumes and you have to, and you're engaged in so much more activity than you've ever been before. And you have this desire to meet needs. And so you kind of can get lost and. And trying to needs, and you can't meet

Dan: 27:02

everybody. One of the things that you in your a hundred percent correct in what you said, but you can never. So my mind and thankfully the company's mind can't waiver from quality. Yeah. You know, but to, to your point, I mean, we have been challenged, like never before to produce more and more of these tests to meet a demand that. Has completely outstripped supply. And it's not just the company I worked for is any company that's in the same space. You just cannot keep up with the amount of demand that's out there. But one of the things that we will not waiver from is quality. And so what are we doing? We're expanding on a global basis to try to meet the demand, the global demand for COVID tests. It's really been really extraordinary. What's occurred in the last 12 months.

Justin: 27:53

That's gotta make you feel very good as a sales leader. Knowing that you've got a quality product that you're selling. Sure. And then it's got to make all of those folks that work for you and another departments

Dan: 28:08

feel the same way. We're proud. I mean, honestly, we really are proud of the quality products that we that we do put into the market. In addition to the way that we have responded to a global pandemic is really. Very unique. I mean, hopefully none of us are going to have to go again for a long, long time. And I can tell you as an employee of the company I'm with that, we're very proud of our contribution to patient management and save literally saving lives. I mean, it's pretty cool. When you think about that that that's what we're doing every day. We are literally saving lives. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty easy to be. Pretty, you know, pretty proud about some of those accomplishments without.

Justin: 28:57

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. It's gotta make you feel good, but I'm curious, you know, you're selling these, these quality products and you've got younger folks. I'm sure. How, or what does it look like or what would you recommend to someone who's younger? Who's in sales and want to continue to climb. The ladder, if you will, who wants to progress in their career? And, you know, they're starting off as I don't know, you know, like a, an SDR as an example or whatever it might be in their junior kind of role, what would you tell them?

Dan: 29:29

It depends on they want to go and I would challenge and I do. And w you know, I mentor several people within the company today, and folks that are looking to grow their careers and, and, you know, my discussions with them. And to address your question is. Pull back a little bit and really think about what are you interested in doing? And here's what I mean, a lot of younger folks will come up and say, I want to lead a team. Why do you think you want to lead a sales team? What is it about you really, that you're really passionate about? There's nothing wrong with it. It's great. It's a great career, but do you really want to do that? You know, think about what excites you and you know, and later on in your career, When you hang up your cleats, what do you have wanted to accomplish in your career journey? And if it's people leadership, terrific. If it's marketing or if it's trading or if it's corporate accounts or it's running you know, business operations team. So that's, my guidance is to, I think some younger folks will just assume they want to lead teams. And then we just start peeling back the onion and Roy. Questioning them. I think it just helps to give a little bit more guidance in terms of building a career that's broader based. And so what we encourage folks to do is to go into marketing for a year, go into sales training for a year. It gets some cross-functional experience and when they do those things and they still want to lead an organization. They just have a much better understanding, a deeper understanding of what it really takes to be successful in a people leadership role.

Justin: 31:10

No, that's good advice. Yeah. You mentioned mentorship and that you're mentoring some folks today. How important has being mentored for you personally, has that been important to you?

Dan: 31:26

Enormously important career. In fact I still get mentoring today from external coach and I find it incredibly useful. And the reason because when you're mentored by somebody that. Has your, your best interest at heart, they want to see you be successful and grow. But somebody also, that's going to push back and challenge a little bit. What you don't want us to mentor? Just say, yeah, Dan, you're doing it. All right. That's great. Keep doing what you're doing. You want to be challenged a little bit. And and that's what I think is my role as a mentor. And I think, you know, the person that, that is mentoring me pushes back quite a bit, you know, and just make sure that. You really truly know what you want to be doing and what you're interested in doing and where you want to take your career journey next. And I think it's just really critical. I would S I would submit to you that no matter where you are in the organization and what organization, what industry find a mentor. Yeah, I think it's that important. Really find a mentor. Absolutely. Somebody that you trust, but somebody who's going to challenge you. Yeah.

Justin: 32:40

Do they need to be in the same field or can they be in something different?

Dan: 32:44

Totally different. In fact, I would actually, I would advocate that. If you find somebody that's a great mentor, but that's completely an industry. Sometimes that's probably even better that somebody that really knows the same industry you're in, you just can't look at it as truly objectively. And I think that's, that is also is really beneficial. Somebody, a completely outside of the industry, because something, you know, what you have is that we have folks that are in the industry for long period of time. You know, I they kind know how organizations run organizations are kind of all run the same in the same industries. And so they may not be giving you that more maybe objective feedback or something that you can really chewy learn from. We got somebody from outside the industry. There's no, I think about medical diagnostics. I can see that. Yeah. Yeah.

Justin: 33:38

So how do you find a mentor? What's the process look like for somebody?

Dan: 33:42

Yeah, within the company I'm with, we have we have a mentoring program. Okay. For, in anybody, if you're a sales rep or a sales leader, or you can reach out, we're very open to creating, continued to create even broader mentoring relationships. But it, like, in my particular case, there is a gentleman that had done consulting work for our company for a number of years. And he's just terrific at what he does and has a abundance of knowledge across industries, by the way, not just in diagnostics. And and so I just elected to use him and he has been terrific. And I've been. Mentored by him for three plus years. Now,

Justin: 34:31

what did that conversation look like? You just called him up on the phone and said, Hey, I need a mentor.

Dan: 34:35

Yeah. Yeah, that's of, that's kind of how it started out. Actually. I'll tell you why. It was part of, we were talking about development a little while ago, and that was part of my development several years back. And I just said, I really think I need. Yeah. And outside, out of the organization tour and in my direct manager thought that was a great idea. And so just started having monthly calls and and then eventually they turned into quarterly calls, but we still keep them every quarter. I'm on the phone with this gentleman then. And they're very enlightening and I learned every single time. Every single time. My kids are not, there's always a pro is that I won't get off the phone and say, I'd never thought a lot of particular way or challenged myself or challenged my ability to the lead or you know, or what to do, who are going to be pursuing. And what does that look like of what time horizon? It just gives you a really good insight into the business. And again, he's, he doesn't know that much about the business, but that's even better.

Justin: 35:41

Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. You started this conversation with people are the most important thing. And here we are talking about the importance of having someone mentor you in order to grow as an individual, the importance of having other people around you to help you through that process is

Dan: 36:01

critical. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, that's how I would encourage. Anyone at any level in the organization any industry they happen to be working in, find a mentor? I just think it's just that important. I know in my career it has absolutely helped me. No question about it. I would not be where I am today in the position I hold or without a mentor. Just great guidance along the way, for sure.

Justin: 36:30

Interesting. I want to come back to, we talked about, Managing people below you. I'm curious. How do you think about the importance of managing up?

Dan: 36:44

Yeah. It's very important. So it's one of these things where it's some ways I would say it's nuanced. So in what do I mean by being nuanced? You know, I think that if you're working for a leader, like in the case of, in my career and the person today that I happened to be working for it's one, a partnership. So it's not that difficult in a way to manage up because we are like minds and it is truly a partnership and it's, and in this person's hap happens to be very collaborative. And is very open to new ideas and suggestions, but at the same time, if I disagree with something, you know, you're free to speak your mind professor always professionally, respectfully, but you can always get your point across if you disagree, but here's the thing. And this is what I challenge my direct staff to do to it. Once he decision is made. Everybody gets behind it. You may not agree all the time. And there've been plenty of occasions where I haven't agreed with a particular decision, but you'd need to have alignment behind the decision and no waffling. So once the decision is made, that's the expectation you get behind it and you go out and execute. And so I've been really thankfu, that I have a management team in place that I can have very open and honest and transparent. Conversations. But that's how I help. That's how I personally, you know, manage up. I think managing up also is also about organizational visibility and it's getting to know the senior leaders of whatever company that working in in make, make yourself. You know, available reach out. And it depends on the coach of your organization for sure. But I've been really lucky that I can have conversations with very senior level leaders in the company. And and they're always open to it. Pretty unique. Yeah. Yeah.

Justin: 39:00

So speaking of being open for conversations. You know, I think that there's an intimidation factor for many, right where you're young you're just getting started. And here you have all these executives and leaders that are older and have been doing this for a long time. How would you advise them to approach a leader and and open up that line of communication?

Dan: 39:25

Yeah, I think that yeah, first I think a more seasoned leader knows that. They're going to have a lot more experience in the young person they're going to be speaking to for sure. Yeah, but I really think that you just reach out to the, to, to the person, you know, obviously it depends on how high in your organization that person might be. Yeah, you should probably clear with your direct manager first, before directly reaching out to a senior leader for sure. And make sure that person supports it. Bu, assuming that all has happened my experience has been that. More senior leaders are very open to taking the time he knew some of they enjoy it. They enjoy it because they're proud of what they've done and what they've accomplished in their career. And if they can provide guidance and, you know, kind of pay it forward there. My experience has always been, they're very receptive to it. Yeah. To coaching younger folks. And in me particular, and being in this industry for 30 years, that's one of the things I love to do. I just enjoy doing it. And long after I'm hanging up my cleats and you know, I'm going to retire. I got folks that are going to come up behind me. And that's what makes me really proud of building an organization. And. And enabling people to grow because long after I'm gone, there's going to be people that could be running the business that, that you know, that I'm not any longer and I'm going to be sitting back and honestly looking very anxious, interested in their success, in, in how they're gonna, you know, kind of carry the organization forward. I think I'm going to get a lot of personal satisfaction now that

Justin: 41:07

you know, you can hear 'em. Or I've heard the statement that you should always be training your replacement. What do you think about that?

Dan: 41:17

A hundred percent agree with it. A hundred percent agree with it. In fact, the company I'm with we, we go through what we call an organizational talent assessment. We do it a couple of times a year and a really important it's important that you know, me as a leader in the company you know, that I know who's going to be taking my seat. We need to know who's taking the person that just took my seat, that person's seat and all the way down. So we do a lot of work, honestly, with with developing people and getting them ready further for their next next role and next assignment. A lot of work on succession planning that occurs as I said, twice a year. Particularly you're in a company that is growing as fast as we are. You need to do that. You just, it's just essential. And the other part of the culture of the company I'm with is that what I really appreciate is that we have a specific metric, what we call an internal fill rate. So for leadership positions, we want to make sure that we're promoting from within. So that is just even that much more important that we have development plans for everybody. And that we have succession planning. We take it really.

Justin: 42:25

Yeah. You people get worried about this idea of training their replacement because they're like then I'm not needed and you're right. You're now able to go do something else that's right. That you can provide value in success. You freed up your

Dan: 42:39

time. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I'm never, honestly, I'm never concerned about here's what my philosophy is. I want to go out and hire and recruit and develop and train people that are better than I am. I want to surround myself with people that are at better doing what they do, then what I do in as smaller, smarter. And I don't think anybody should feel like they're working themselves out of a. Out of a job. That's part of a role a leader is to make sure that we're getting folks ready to take a position in the organization. And it doesn't have to be your position that you're sitting in. It could be another. Position in the organization is also critical. So we spent a lot of time and energy making sure that our, that folks that we believe have potential in high potential, that they have very active development plans in place. And that We're doing everything we can to support them in their career.

Justin: 43:48

What do you personally look for in someone as you're looking for those people that could be filling your shoes in the future, who were coming up behind you? What do you look for? What qualities?

Dan: 43:59

Yeah, somebody that has a really good knowledge the business. As we were talking about earlier, someone that has spent time, not just in the. The sales silo, not just the sales person became a really good region. Director became a really good area director, but somebody that has challenged themselves and moved into a different functional area of the company, whether it's a business operations role or a technical support management role or marketing, I mean, it could be all kinds of opportunities out there. That's particularly what I am specifically looking for is somebody that just has a broader perspective of the business and not just. Not just a siloed vision. Yeah.

Justin: 44:45

Wow. I think that's good. I know we're kind of at a point where we should probably wrap up, I guess the final thing I would probably ask about is communication. We've kind of tiptoed around it or talked a little bit about it, but when you think about community , what is the impact on the organization?

Dan: 45:08

It's a, is. I would argue it's one of the most important things that a leader needs to be doing should be doing is to be communicating with their teams, with their organization. This whole notion of open, honest two way communication is really critical and that's what drives a higher level of engagement. And frankly, that's what. Enables us to be more successful. It's that important? You know, and we open the lines of communication. We're talking about some of the, you know, routine calls that, that we have. But it goes beyond that we do what we call skip levels. And that's me as a leader, just getting on a phone with a sales rep, calling them up. Yeah know, just talking about anything, how's it going? What are your struggles? You know, what are your obstacles? How can I help? You know, it's amazing having those 15, 20 minute conversations, what that does for morale. It's amazing. You know, and as we're talking about, you know, the level of engagement and in that you, it demonstrates that you care, you really care. And I think that's a critical part of leadership is setting everything else aside. Do you care about the people that are working for you? And I think if it, people need to know that and I think that makes all the difference in the world. That along with your motivation, if somebody that's working for you feels as if you're motivated just to continue to move up in the organization. That's probably not going to go over so well. But if somebody really believes that you're motivated to serve them this whole notion of servant leadership, You're going to be a lot more successful. No doubt. Yeah.

Justin: 46:58

I just want to say thank you, Dan, for coming on the show and telling us about your story and your perspective as a sales leader and what it is you look for in other people, but then also just how important it is for you to be a servant leader. And what does that really look like and how you can live that out?

Dan: 47:17

Great, Justin. Thank you. I really enjoyed it. Thanks. Thanks. I appreciate it.

Justin: 47:21

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