Justin: 0:00

well, thanks everybody for joining today, I have with me Phillip Scoggins, who is with ArcBest manager over at ArcBest, but also if I'm not mistaken, you sit on several state boards. Is that correct?

Phillip: 0:12

I do. Yeah. Do you want me to say those or

Justin: 0:15

you can tell me about them?

Phillip: 0:16

mean, do you, I mean, I'll have to, well, I'm a. I am on the New Mexico guarantee board. And I'm also on the Arkansas guarantee board. And then I'm on the Arkansas self-insured association board. I'm the president of that.

Justin: 0:32

Okay. So tell me a little bit about what you do, I guess, for our best and what those boards actually are.

Phillip: 0:38

So I am, my title is senior manager of risk management. And so, we have two different departments, that I'm over the claims. And so. Risk management. Think of it like an insurance company. We're self-insured self administered. So if we have an accident on the road, that's being handled in house by us, we have adjusters that are employed by ArcBest. And so I'm over all of our clinics, work comp and liability,

Justin: 1:04

and best does what?

Phillip: 1:07

ArcBest is a logistics company. They're a holistic logistics company. They, they are the parent company of multiple companies, under that umbrella, that deal with logistics.

Justin: 1:17

So you got this big logistics company and then you've got these Workman comp

Phillip: 1:23

you have your employees that are getting injured and we handle that in house, but then you also have the, just the enforcement. activities that happen on the road as a driver, you're going to have accidents. And so we have property damage claims. We have, bodily injuries and yeah, it's a rough job, that you have to be prepare your soul for on some level. but it's been really good to me and it's a great opportunity. So those boards are, connected to, because, like a new Mexican go, for example, there are other companies that are self-insured. If those companies go bankrupt, Then the state has to step in and handle the work comp payouts, for example. So the guarantee board is just, they get money to be, to be self-insured. We have to pay fees to be self-insured in those States. And so if a company goes bankrupt, that board, which has been collecting those fees for all those years from those companies are self-insured step in and pay for it. so I'm on that in New Mexico, in Arkansas, and then they are gonna sell self-insured association is a, Well, it's pretty self descriptive. We have membership companies. Self-insured companies like Tyson ArcBest, Walmart, Dillard's actually, I don't think dealer's a current member, but we're working on them, but

Justin: 2:42

So get ready. Dillard's Phillip coming for ya.

Phillip: 2:44

Right. So we are. We try to educate people on what's going on with, legislation that will impact us. We, we provide continuing education because jesters have to get licensing hours. And then, we also do some lobbying, trying to make sure we are being proactive in the legislative front for self-insured employers.

Justin: 3:04

Wow. There's actually a whole lot to that

Phillip: 3:06

Yeah. Yeah. And I put it very much abbreviate today.

Justin: 3:12

sure. So as you think about, I guess what, you know, what you're doing as it relates to, you know, obviously there's insurance, there's claims, there's, workman's comp there's people out on the road that potentially are getting hurt or hurting other people. And so your job is to. I guess let's, let's say I'm a truck driver and I'm driving on the road and I have an accident. Where do you fit into this?

Phillip: 3:36

Yeah, so, the people within the umbrella of my department, that, that report up to me, we have claims handlers. So if, for example, you are an employee, our job is to make sure you're taking care of getting the medical treatment. You need getting the weekly benefits that are owed through workers' compensation, and, and just directing care and trying to get you back to where you were before. And on the other side, let's say we had. Those unfortunate times where we might have an accident where we're at fault and, and someone's hurt. Our job is to try to settle those claims and, Do what take care of people in that way. and sometimes both work comp and the liability side, we have litigation that occurs. So we hire attorneys and the different jurisdictions where, where those injuries occur to, to try to resolve those issues.

Justin: 4:25

Is there a lot of stress in your role and for the folks that work with you or for you, is there, are they stressed a

Phillip: 4:30

It's a hard job. and it takes, everybody's not made for it. And so, man, you're dealing with some rough things. You see some rough things at times. And, I mean, obviously there's fatalities that happen. And so we have to address those and handle those so that it, especially if it's an employee or, w where you're dealing with people's spouses directly on those things. Yeah. That can be hard. It's hard on you. So, it has to, you have to have a healthy balance and you have to learn to. not take everything home with you and, but yeah, it's, it's, it's rough at times.

Justin: 5:06

How do you, as, as a leader, help develop your employees in that role?

Phillip: 5:17

well, there's multiple things that we do. first of all, our corporation has been tremendous and I'm not just saying that because it worked for him. In developing people over the last several years. And so from a holistic standpoint, art best has great one-on-one or face-to-face trainings, which is kind of not happening much now with COVID, but. They have where we look at emotional intelligence, we look at different types of personalities. So this overarching thing that can be applied in all places in claims handling to, art Vestas, providing training and education on those things. So what kind of person is Justin? So how would I talk to Justin? How does he like to communicate? So, so that's overarching training. and then to dive in a little bit deeper, as far as our department. We have a lot of, especially if you're you're new handle, the claims, we have a lot of new folks that, we spend a lot of time with and sit with them and say, this is how you handle this. And, and even in the hiring process, we are very clear about what they're doing and just say, Hey, this is not for everybody. And so we try to do a very good job on the front end of screening people to make sure that. That they've got the mindset for it, but also, when they come on, we are saying, Hey, how are you doing with this? you can't take it home. And just, just the practical, of having discussions. So we have one-on-ones with all of our team, with their, direct report and they're getting checked checked on, most of the time weekly, just see how they're doing and making sure they're functioning well. And, and, it's not overwhelming them. Yeah.

Justin: 7:06

Okay. So just for, from maybe from a scale standpoint, and maybe you can answer this or maybe you can't answer it. I don't know. But how many claims do you F do you process in a year?

Phillip: 7:17

Oh man. So let me give you a very simple answer, but there's some nuance to that answer, but. from worker's compensation, a couple thousand claims.

Justin: 7:29

So a couple thousand years, or a couple thousand years, a couple of thousand claims a year. So as an employee,

Phillip: 7:34

maybe a little more specific that couple thousand times where someone reports some kind of injury, not all of those will result in somebody treating, not all of those will result in somebody missing work, but 2000 reports where we have to look at it, we have to code it. We have to see what's going on 2000 of those.

Justin: 7:54

So as an employee and somebody who works for you, and now I've got like 2000 a year and I don't know how many folks you have, but that's a lot of claims that I've got to go through and process. And, and you're probably dealing with stress, from multiple claims at once.

Phillip: 8:09

Oh yeah. And the ebb and flow of this stuff. So, let's say you have the state of Arkansas. Well, maybe you get bad weather and little rock. Now you have all these slip and fall claims and they're hitting you all at once. so there's always this ebb and flow. if you're in the Northeast and you're having winter storms, we have more accidents, because by its nature, it's just, it's how it's going to

Justin: 8:34

yeah. The weather and whatever

Phillip: 8:36

the ebb and flow for people, I mean, it stinks, man. And I say it all the time was like, Ugh. I am overwhelmed, but I know a little it'll flow through and that's what I have to tell people. Hey, you gotta make sure you stay on top of your stuff in the slow seasons,

Justin: 8:52

because.

Phillip: 8:53

It's going to hit. We just don't know when.

Justin: 8:55

Yeah. And then all of a sudden people are just getting pounded and you've got a lot of work you've got to get

Phillip: 9:01

Yup. So

Justin: 9:01

because everybody wants to get paid. Yeah. Right. And it's like, I got this claim

Phillip: 9:05

so when we're talking about denying claims is tough, right. Because if something's not compensable and it's different by every state, what kind of rules and people might. People think that we're, we're picking on him at times and we're not ever, it's just like, Hey, here's what statute is, this is what we're going to apply and we're going to play it consistently. so it causes a lot of tension and conflict at times.

Justin: 9:27

I bet. I bet. So you've got, you know, this employee development, it sounds like ArcBest does a really good job of helping you just general employee development. It sounds like from your team's perspective, there's a lot of development that is happening as far as just working with people. One-on-one ensuring that they're in a good place emotionally to be able to handle some of these different stresses that they're facing.

Phillip: 9:48

And along with that, the education of internally, we bring in people to give classes on. whether it be liability issues, work comp issues constantly. So every year, except for COVID, we always have people come in to, to provide us training in house, and then constantly our folks are going to conferences and, we support people doing that just to get more education in the chin because medical things are changing all the time. It's constant progressive change. And if we're not being educated, we're going to fall behind real quick.

Justin: 10:23

Yeah. And then there's more stress

Phillip: 10:25

Yeah. And Archibus does a great job of, like right now I can go get training anytime I want. We have what's called art best. you are the best university. And just tons of resources for me to just go online. And then we're doing all these teams, things where, or our training departments providing us really great stuff. And then we have stuff like a, what they call leadership series. So if you're in management or it looks like you're about to be in management, they'll, they'll put you in leadership series, which is a year long course where you're going in and it's, it's pretty extensive. Where are you going over the, these talks? Hey, how do you be a good coach? How, How do you deal with someone who has a problem? Just real practical things. And they have what's called leadership Academy. And so it's kind of exclusive. There's about 30 folks a year that go to leadership Academy. I had the blessing and the opportunity to go the second year they had it. And man it is intense, but Oh yeah, for real, it's, it's intense. It's like university level stuff, but yeah, they do a great job of a Quip of equipping their leadership, but management to, to not just, have good performance and be able to do practical things, but to how you work with people, how do you make your people's lives better? and, and man, I've seen that evolve while I've been there.

Justin: 11:47

Are there a lot of other companies that do stuff like that. Have you heard of others like inside or outside of

Phillip: 11:52

course it varies on different levels. I worked for another corporation before and they did a little bit of it, but not to the extent that ArcBest does it. and it's a corporation, so there's 13,000 employees at art best in total. and so it's a huge corporation. So to be able to, for corporation to get you to go, Hey, they care about me. That's a really big deal. because it doesn't happen all the time. And I got to tell you, when I first got to ArcBest in 2009, I didn't feel that near as much as I do today.

Justin: 12:26

So you feel like it's improved

Phillip: 12:27

a hundred percent? A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. the corporation itself has improved over time. I mean, they've been around since 1923, so over 95 years for them to have survived this long, they're doing some stuff. Right. And there's a culture there. That amazingly to me, seriously, I believe has improved since 2009. And it's this investment into people that has transformed. And in my opinion, the main thing that has changed it. So the leadership got on board with, it said, let's, let's spend a lot of money to do leadership Academy and they spend a lot of money to do that. Let's spend a lot of money to get our talent management group bigger and better and, and provide the resources and it's worth it. Yeah.

Justin: 13:11

So culture, I'm glad you brought that up because it's such a key component for successful businesses. And it's something that I think a lot of times people overlook the importance of culture. And I think you just gave a great illustration of the value of having a great quality culture, where you care about your people.

Phillip: 13:30

Yeah. And fairly new, since I've been there, they said, Hey, here's what our values are. And most people that work our ArcBest, at least me, for sure, but most people have some idea of what our values are and I can, can just list them off, creativity. So we have creativity, integrity, collaboration, growth, excellence, and wellness. I mean, those are on my heart. I know those. So you don't probably get a lot of people that are working for corporations that can

Justin: 14:03

know their values.

Phillip: 14:04

yeah, and I know our values. so creativity, Hey, we're going to find a way to make this work and that is arc best. It really is. again, we are holistic logistics company, so they say, okay, let's figure this weird scenario out for this individual customer. And they're going to figure it out, how they make things work and creativity is preached, just taught, but it's applied and it's a big deal, integrity. we really do want to do the right thing. It's preached. It's talked about, let's do the right thing in my department. It's Hey, we're not trying to save money. We're not trying to make money. That's not our job. Our job is to do the right thing, to treat people right. And people know that collaboration, we've got to do it together. It's pretty easy when growth and that's elevate you, that's all this stuff. which I've talked about, excellence. We just want to do it really, really well, but a big one of them. And the last one that has, and it's had a big impact for me as wellness, our company absolutely has spent money to provide, tools for us. To, to work on our wellness, our physical wellbeing, our spiritual wellbeing, and this work-life balance. I've started to see just being talked about, Hey, let's do it right. They do classes on, I mean, how many corporations come say, Hey, don't work too much.

Justin: 15:19

Yeah, yeah,

Phillip: 15:20

yeah. And they do. And so, yeah. And I'm seeing it pay dividends. Right.

Justin: 15:26

So when you think about the culture and this. You know, these values have been defined. Clearly the leadership is bought in on this. Do you, do you have any visibility of, of maybe why or what it was that maybe drove them to say, you know what, yeah, we're going to,

Phillip: 15:45

yeah, man, I don't know. I wasn't in the inner workings of how that stuff came about. but we've had, we had some changes in leadership and I noticed with those changes in leadership. That that's when those things started to occur. So Judy, Mick Reynolds is our CEO and honestly, I don't know how it all played out, but, She's got, Erin Gaddis is I think her title is chief human resource officer. And I think she's been a main integral part in pushing this stuff along and, and just saying, let's do things different because like I said, in 95, over 95 year old company can get stuck in its ways, but that is not ArcBest. They're like, Hey, let's try different things. Let's see what happens.

Justin: 16:26

Yeah, I think that's really important because a lot of companies, and it doesn't matter your size. I mean, if you've been in business for a while, you end up kind of hitting this plateau and then you just get stuck in this rut of doing the same thing over and over and over again. And what ends up happening is is your competitors pass you because they're continuing to innovate. Yeah. And, and you're not because you just get stuck in a rut and it sounds like our best is innovating

Phillip: 16:53

That's the culture. And I can speak to our department on that. I'm sorry, I'm talking a lot, but I guess I'm supposed to, because this is supposed to happen here, but, we'd looked at like our department, we looked at what. our talent management group was doing our human resource group was doing and how they were changing, how we did things as far as, let's instill these values as far as let's get a gym, as far as, Just adding things and not being afraid, doing promotional campaigns on, we had a safety cat thing. They were just really trying things weird, new creative at times. I mean, just whatever and yeah, and they're like, Hey, let's see what happens. They changed our, and they saved money. They ended up saving tons of money, like,

Justin: 17:42

from implementing these

Phillip: 17:43

because we're, self-insured for our health insurance too. And people's health got better. I mean, I have a company clinic. I can go today. It doesn't cost me a thing. If I get any labs done, it doesn't cost me a thing. That's an expense to them and they brought it in and said, here you go. And so, and then they, they do these wellness things where I get a physical every year. I get, they draw blood work from me every year. They encourage us to be monitoring our health and, it pays off. So anyway, they do all these things that were creative. I watched how they work and then as our department and my boss, my director, he. He's willing to go to, but we're looking at what they're doing and it's inspiring to us. And we didn't realize how much it was inspiring us, but it is. And so it's cha we're like, Hey, what do we need to do? And so we're making holistic changes in our department that are, we could have kept doing things the way we've been doing things since I've been there for the last 20 years, but because of leadership and what they've done it is now it's just flowing down.

Justin: 18:46

Interesting. So it starts at the top. The culture is defined by the folks at the top that start to set these values and start to make these decisions about where are we going to? Where are we going to spend our resources? In order to help make our team successful.

Phillip: 19:03

a hundred percent.

Justin: 19:04

So do you think that they have, and this is just, I guess, speculation, right? Which is, do you think that they, they value employees over, let's say shareholder value,

Phillip: 19:18

you know, that's, it's an interesting question because in, as men's, it's really hard to balance that out. I absolutely, they care about shareholder value. They have an obligation and commitment to them. but from my personal experience in how they have treated me. like for example, with the health, my kid, Moses, you know him, right. I had some health problems, man. They were so stinking gracious to me from the top down from I was on the phone with the director of our benefits department, talking to her about giving, getting a, a helicopter flight from little rock to, to Boston children's hospital. And she's speaking to me directly. Yeah, and just truly concerned, truly cared her VP, truly her VP truly cared about the situation. yeah, they care. it's very evidenced in how they treat us with benefits, how they treat with those things. But of course, as a corporation, 13,000 employees, you have blanket mandates. This is how we do things. And so they, I, with what they have, they do the best they can to when they should. Or could or make individual decisions as best as possible, but it's impossible in some,

Justin: 20:39

Yeah. But I think that that's a, I think that's a great, that should be inspiring to other companies of, of arc best size, right. 13,000 folks. That's not small. And, and you hear stories of, of people that are miserable. Inside of these organizations, these large organizations they feel lost. And yet at the same time, it sounds like, you know, doing some of these things that aren't best has done can really benefit a lot of organizations.

Phillip: 21:07

Yeah. Oh, no doubt. Yeah. And so, and I'm talking from a very general perspective, there are going to be specific instances where somebody is not treated right. We're in a broken world, so that's going to happen. Or you might have a bad boss, or you might have a bad leader. You just might have people that should not getting along. And so circumstances like that happen, but in general, yes, I absolutely think they have been doing a fantastic job.

Justin: 21:30

So when you think about your, your team now, and you've got this culture that this is happening within the context of your team, how has that culture change impacted those products and services that you offer?

Phillip: 21:45

Yeah, so we're looking to be more dynamic in what we're doing. So for, since I've been there, we've used the same claim system. and they've had it for over 20 years and we're like, Is this the best thing we should do. Yeah. And it's a huge change to change a claim system. I mean,

Justin: 22:04

can't imagine.

Phillip: 22:05

Oh, it's so complicated. We have data feeds from all these other departments. It's, it's a huge endeavor and we've decided, we're, we're in negotiations now. We're actually, I think we're almost done with negotiations, but we're working with another company that's going to bring in that holistic change. I believe we're going to be implementing that in 2021. And, Bill review system. So new bill review system, we've had the same bill review system for 20 years. So we're like, Hey, let's do that structure change in our department. We've totally changed the structure of our department in the last two years, providing more opportunity, but also making it more advantageous to where we have people on what they're doing. I really don't think that happens without first, my boss. And I mean that, he's a good guy. He's a good boss and he's willing to do things, but he's greatly influenced because I've sat in his office and talked about, Hey, look how this, what they've done in human resources, talent management, people services, human resources is an outdated term now, but I look what they've done. We've got to go.

Justin: 23:08

do this.

Phillip: 23:09

Yeah. Yeah.

Justin: 23:11

Wow. So when you think about the. Benefits of these relationships within your department. And, and does it change the ownership of, or your work ability, like the ownership of your responsibilities within the context of what it is that you do on a daily basis and other employees as well? Because they're seeing these benefits, they understand the values of the company. People are being well cared for, Does that translate into

Phillip: 23:45

better workers?

Justin: 23:47

I mean, yeah,

Phillip: 23:47

a hundred. Yeah. I mean, morale is a huge part of productivity and when people are miserable, it shows and reflects in their work. as far as our department specifically, I have never seen it better. And of course that's my opinion, but I think most people that have been in that department for 20 years, and we've got lots of people that have been there for 20 years. would testify to, yeah, this is, this is as good as it's been and we're, and we're not done yet. We're going to keep going because if they know that we're looking to, Hey, what are we doing to make people's lives better in our department work-life balance, better efficiencies trying to make your job easier. reducing, redundancy, They fill it on a personal level. And I think it, it motivates them to, to work harder and to care more.

Justin: 24:45

Yeah, I guess it's just, it's amazing to me. To hear stories like this, because you do hear the other side of the coin with a lot of companies

Phillip: 24:57

on the other side of the

Justin: 24:57

you've been on the other side of the coin. And so this is, this is a much better, obviously it sounds, I mean, you seem very enthusiastic about ArcBest and just what you're doing and what they're doing in order to support you. So let's talk about that other side of the coin though. What was the most challenging thing being on the other side of that coin?

Phillip: 25:18

Well, for me, if you're miserable at work and. Miserable misery from work can be because you're not supposed to be doing that job. You're not supposed to be there, but if you're miserable at work because people don't care about you and you're just a number. Yeah. It makes your whole life miserable. so, to me, And my goal is, but when I started in leadership, but at ArcBest, really the thing, the thing that I'd say, my number one goal is, is I want to make people's lives better. Yeah. And in doing so, it makes our department better. So on the other side of the coin, there were times where I would go, there was a job I had where I'd go to work. I was so miserable. Well, I struggled swallowing my food. And seriously. Wow. Yeah. And there's no doubt that it impacted us. Like these people. I care about me. Why should I care about them? Right. And I don't want to be that way, but there's no doubt it impacted me and my commitment. Wasn't nearly as much like art best. I'm committed. I'm in. Hey, let's go. but yeah, it definitely has an impact on

Justin: 26:34

I've been there too. Where, where you just know. Like, you're just a number

Phillip: 26:39

and you're just a number

Justin: 26:41

and you know, that they don't care about you. All they care about is the bottom line and, and it's demoralizing.

Phillip: 26:49

Yeah. Yeah. When nobody's asking you how you're doing. so for me, if someone's struggling at work, the first thing I need to find out is are they okay? Yeah. so. It matters that for us in our department, when we're meeting with somebody who's like, is something going on? And so that's why we're, we're really about one-on-one meetings with people and yeah. I'm fortunate. I got a couple of managers that report to me, and they've got the lion's share of people that report to them. But man, we involve ourselves in people's lives. I have conversations with people, making sure they're doing okay if they're struggling, if you're struggling, that means you're probably going to end up having a conversation with me.

Justin: 27:32

How did you build the level of trust in order to open up that level of communication?

Phillip: 27:37

Well, when I became a manager, I started on the work comp side where I became manager of workers' compensation. I started meeting with people and saying, Hey, what's going on? Let's let's flesh this out. And honestly, for about a year, I spent meeting with people saying, Hey, what's going on? How can I make your life better? What can we do here? And. There was a lot of baggage in that, but it is the reiteration of, I really want your life to be better. I really want your job to be better because I think it makes your life better. And so it's reiterating that and showing them that. so I think it's just being genuine about it and, and putting your money where your mouth is, which means I'm going to take the time to spend with you. And I'm going to listen to you.

Justin: 28:22

And now you end up with this level of trust. So do people just come and knock on your door now and say, Hey, can I come in and talk.

Phillip: 28:27

Oh, Oh yeah. I don't know how much I should say this, but I have done a lot of counseling at work and I've had lots of people come to me and say, can we talk about this? And, I did it yesterday and, but. I don't know, the Lord kind of made me to do that on some level. And so I don't know if that's for everybody to do, but, but yeah, absolutely happens all the time.

Justin: 28:56

So people just come knock on the door. Can I talk, they talk and then there's gotta be just a level of, obviously trust in you respecting you. but there's gotta be a level of peace that comes for them being able to come to work every day at a place where

Phillip: 29:14

no, no, no. Not after to get you. Yeah. So here's what I tell people if you're working in our department. And so at some point I'm involved in that interview process. but so if I, if

Justin: 29:26

going to pause you, are you a tough interviewer?

Phillip: 29:28

I don't think so. I want you to feel comfortable. I'm not sending, they're going to try to put the light on you and make you sweat, because I really want to get to know you. And so probably I'm going to loosen you up and I'm going to say something stupid or do something stupid to loosen you up because that's the better interview to me, where I get to see, Oh, this is this real person where if I get them on edge and tense, They might freeze up on me and that might not be who they are, but if I can get them to relax and just say, Hey, I want to get to know you. so I don't think I'm tough interview, but here's the thing. So if you're working with me or if I've had some kind of meeting with you, and so there's 25 folks in our department, and we've had a handful of new folks over the last few years. But what I will tell everybody is there's three things that will mean you will succeed here in this department.

Justin: 30:26

Is this just your personal wisdom,

Phillip: 30:28

are my personal

Justin: 30:29

personal pearls right here.

Phillip: 30:32

They're honestly the things that if you don't do it, torques me off. Yeah.

Justin: 30:36

All right. So do I need to write these down? Okay. All

Phillip: 30:40

you'll figure it out. They're pretty, we're very simplistic there. Tell the truth.

Justin: 30:44

Okay.

Phillip: 30:45

Okay. if you lie to me, I can't help you. And so people will try to cover things up, or if they make a mistake, we're going to make a mistake. So let me know what it is. Tell me the truth. Tell me what's going on because I'm going to come alongside you to help you to fix it. I'm not your enemy. I don't, I don't like discipline. I don't like having to do it. I don't like receiving it, but sometimes we need it. But if, if I can help you, I want to help you, but you gotta tell me the truth. I gotta be able to trust you. the other one is you work hard. So work ebbs and flows. If you get some downtime and you're working hard, you're doing what you need to do. I don't really care, but if you're behind and you're sloughing, yeah, I'm going to be really angry at you.

Justin: 31:32

What does angry Phillip look like?

Phillip: 31:34

I'm not doing that. If you, if you're behind and you're not working and I'm supposed to come alongside and help you because I will help people. Oh, I have no qualms with coming in and working people's workflows. I'm not above it. And I shouldn't be, but if you're not doing it, I ain't going to help you. And I'm going to give you enough rope to hang yourself.

Justin: 31:53

That's

Phillip: 31:54

probably not a great. But anyway, I will. And so work hard and that, and so I can put up with, because people have personal stuff that comes up, which means they might fall behind in their work, or they might be struggling to work because of personal stuff. Yeah. or you might just have competency issues. You're not ready for what you're doing quite yet. And so I could put up with that. I can put up with a lot of incompetence. But if you're being lazy, I don't have patience for it.

Justin: 32:23

Well, it sounds like if there was a challenge with not being, not knowing how to do something that, that you, that you'd get the training.

Phillip: 32:31

Yeah. That's right. Let, let's sit down. Let's figure this out. Hey, you're having, you're obviously not being efficient. Well, what can we do? What kind of steps are we taking? Let's sit down with, I mean, we've sat down and said, let me see how you do things. so we'll take the time to do that. but the last one that really is the most important to me. And you treat each other well. The, the culture that I stepped into, back in 2009, I think had a little bit, I really think it had some, a lot of gossip that was happening. A lot of infighting, a lot of this team versus that team type thing. And that annoyed the snot out of me. And so for me, man, you're spending more waking hours at work than anywhere else. You better be treating people well, Because if you're miserable, you're, if you're being bad to somebody at work, you're probably making them miserable at life. And so it's a big thing, feel how we treat each other. So I, the thing I have the least patients for is people talking trash about each other or just treating each other poorly. And man, I don't see that in our department. We have it come up a little bit, but that's one of the things we jump on really, really quick. Because I hate it so much. So I tell every interviewee that, or, or even if you're hired on and you've been working for a while. So here's the three things, you know, my three rules and I think most people know my three rules.

Justin: 33:57

So if we were to send out a pop quiz to all the folks that work

Phillip: 34:01

you 80%, we'd get

Justin: 34:03

they get them. Right. That's awesome. All right. So that's the three pearls of wisdom, which, which seem. Yeah, pretty basic, right? I mean, it doesn't sound, it's not like mindblowing, these aren't things that you would, I mean, you would expect that this is the kind of behavior that you would want.

Phillip: 34:25

Yeah. But that's why the old Testament always repeats itself because people don't get it and I don't get it. So I need the reminder too. So you make it basic and you keep feeding it to them.

Justin: 34:34

But I think that that's the truth. With the values piece that you talked about earlier, you know, the values, not because they put them up on a board one time. Good.

Phillip: 34:44

The biggest their practice and they're applicable. and they're practical. I mean, they're pretty simple.

Justin: 34:50

people live them out daily. And so the things that are important to our best, you probably understand what's important to our yeah.

Phillip: 34:59

Yeah. Well, I do. It's it's seared on me.

Justin: 35:01

Yeah. Because people are constantly talking about it and reiterating it.

Phillip: 35:05

it.

Justin: 35:06

And living it out. So that seems to be the key, not only for the company as a whole, but also just for your department.

Phillip: 35:14

Yep. And it costs you money. It costs you time. It costs you a big commitment and it also means you throw some mud against the wall that doesn't stick at

Justin: 35:21

Hmm. Yeah. Have you ever, have you ever done that? Do you have a story of where you, where you tried something and it didn't go well? Not like terrible, like, you know,

Phillip: 35:31

absolutely everything we've done is going extremely well. no, you know, to make some course changes in partnerships, law firms that we use, definitely have surveillance companies we've used. I mean, all this stuff we've had to make some course changes on partnerships. We've had to make some course changes on a software implementation. We've had to make some course changes on roles. well, this isn't going to work. Like we thought it was going to, so yeah, we have to make course changes all the time, but man, that's not failure. That's not messing up. That's learning. And it's only failure if you keep on doing it. Yeah. other than that, it's just, it's an education and we go, okay, well, what do we do now?

Justin: 36:20

A lot of people look at things like that and see them as failure and then just quit moving forward.

Phillip: 36:25

Yeah. I think people are scared. And so if this culture is a culture, in which, for the most part, you can take some risk, it's calculated risk. We're not going to be doing something really crazy or stupid, and money matters on what kind of rescued. And you gotta, you gotta figure that out. But man, if, if you've got a good idea, even if it's super expensive and you can show, Hey, this is what we believe. The return on investment is, Yeah, you have the opportunity. But what happens is when you're in a culture where this is the way we've been doing things, this is how it is, and people are resistant to it. Then you have all that pressure on you. If you change it, because like they didn't want to do it in the first place. Well, you don't have to brow beat here. we're just, we get to explore opportunities for where we can make changes. And within the last, I don't know. Three years in our department, we have had more changes by far, the previous 20.

Justin: 37:28

Wow. That's, that's gotta be actually tough for many reasons. I mean, as a general rule as humans, we're not huge fans of change. We like to think that we are. but, but we generally kind

Phillip: 37:41

there was a lot of resistance. Yeah.

Justin: 37:43

So how do you. If you had to give one tip for a company that's going through a lot of change, how do you get buy-in,

Phillip: 37:52

with results? So. I, we had a bill review system and how we have to code our bills and send them to, the bill review company to, to pay these providers or whatever. And it was terrible. I mean, there was like 13 steps you had to take to send one bill. I mean, we counted of up. Yeah. And we said, we need to change this. And with the partner we have, we said, we got to change this anyways. They provided a support on all that. And there was some resistance to that.

Justin: 38:24

So resistance from the company that you're asking to change or the, or the

Phillip: 38:27

internally, because we've been doing things the same way for forever.

Justin: 38:31

whatever years

Phillip: 38:32

And so there's like a, there's a, there's a little bit of pushback on that, but then when it comes through. Three months later, you're like, this is good. Well, you remind them of that. They're like, Hey. Yep. And by the way, we're going to come up with some bad ideas that might not work, but we've got, so you hang on to what's so good. And you say it's worth some risk. It's worth trying to change some things. but, but you've got to advertise what you've done well, and then say, and, but also be. Humble enough and transparent enough to say if something doesn't work after whatever period of time we can go back. and, just be willing to do that and not hold on to things that aren't working

Justin: 39:13

well. And I think one of the values I'm going to probably get them wrong. Cause you only told them to me once, but it was along the idea of being innovative,

Phillip: 39:21

yeah. creativity.

Justin: 39:23

Okay. So you've got this creativity value. I don't know how you are creative, and don't fail.

Phillip: 39:33

How are you?

Justin: 39:33

Right. I mean, I think, I think it's, I think it comes with being

Phillip: 39:36

You're going to fell. Yeah,

Justin: 39:38

and fail

Phillip: 39:39

we don't look at it as failure, right? It's it's it's education. Yeah.

Justin: 39:44

And that's okay.

Phillip: 39:45

Yeah.

Justin: 39:45

So just get creative on something else.

Phillip: 39:48

Yeah. So exactly. I mean, I just can't imagine what it was like to build the first cell phone.

Justin: 39:58

I w yeah, carrying big thing around,

Phillip: 40:00

well, it is that Thomas Edison thing that I, some quote and I'll, I'm going to butcher it terribly, but, he didn't say that he found a thousand ways to do the light bulb wrong or no, he didn't make a thousand mistakes on the moon light bulb. He found a thousand ways not to do the light bulb or something like

Justin: 40:19

yeah. Yeah. I think that Dale, I think I get the idea, though. The idea is, is that you have this. you know, you're trying to make the light bulb. You do it a thousand times. It's not the right way to do it. Clearly. I learned something along the way. And now, now you've got a light bulb. Yup. We're surrounded by a couple of them. Yeah.

Phillip: 40:37

the bright get a suntan right now.

Justin: 40:42

so when you come back to

Phillip: 40:43

I guess it's not a suntan though. It's just a light

Justin: 40:45

just light tan, thanks to Edison. We've got no, we can do that. I think when I w when I reflect on. Creativity. I think a lot of people desire to be creative and, and have ideas at work. So how do people surface those things?

Phillip: 41:08

Well, again, it is about that overarching culture, right? That, Hey, we want to hear your idea. So as leaders, we've got to ask people for them and then we've got to be willing to listen. And so it is having that open dialogue. It is being purposeful in including people in decisions. So, we have stopped going, Hey, this is your project. Run it. W we we've gotten, we've gotten more used to saying let's get together. And it's annoying at times you're dependent upon others. You got different personalities you're dealing with, but that collaboration piece. Yeah, it is so important. So it really is, Hey, we want you, you on deck, we don't want these silos going over here where this guy handles out. No, we're in this together. Let's figure out these ideas and given the given. Give them the opportunity to, to get those ideas out there.

Justin: 42:00

Collaboration also helps build, consensus on moving forward and, and helps smooth over the idea of change. Because if we're working on something together, you get buy-in out.

Phillip: 42:21

that's right. No doubt. so you look at our folks, right? they're handling claims. A lot of them are so. How do you collaborate on working at claim? Because, well, I know the rules for the state. I know I'm going to enter blah, blah, blah or whatever, liability side. what we do is we do a round table. And so we take these weird, crazy claims or high exposure claims or whatever. just these different little nuances to claims. And we all talk as a group together about, Hey, did you do this? Did you try this? Did you do that? So even in. Handling a claim. Creativity comes out through collaboration.

Justin: 42:59

How do you do that today? What have you found works since you can't go to the office?

Phillip: 43:06

team meeting? technology's a great thing. I'll say this, I think the, the optimal thing. Is a hybrid approach. There's value in it. And for some people, some people, the optimal thing is to be in the office all the time. Some people they want to be at home all the time, but I don't think that's optimal. I think there is a difference there. I think for those people, I think they need to be in the office because there's something to face-to-face communication. There is more synergy in face-to-face communication. However, you can get, create more synergy with the hybrid plan and, and that, so, you know, for our department, it has worked extremely well because we have really good leaders, the managers. So the manager of the work comp workers' compensation department and the manager of our liability departments, they are having one-on-ones with people. They're having team meetings. They have team meeting every week they're so they're, they're communicating more. Than they did when they were in the office because they're having these more meetings. Yeah. 'cause we, we realized we got to get on top of this, but they've done a great job, which makes my job a whole lot.

Justin: 44:18

Does it? I'm sure it does. Yeah. Did you all do a lot of white board type of stuff in the office? Like get into a conference room and use whiteboards as you were having these conversations? Or was it like, just throw all the papers on the desk?

Phillip: 44:27

Yeah. Yeah. It was more paperwork. I mean, white board came into play every once in a while, but you know, most of the markers are dried out. It's annoying. So.

Justin: 44:35

but you have all these papers. And so you can, so, but you know, I mean, you can't obviously pass those papers around and come up with an idea. So,

Phillip: 44:42

yeah. so right now we're, we're going through some big changes. Like I talked about with the claim system where we're, we're deep in that right now. So

Justin: 44:52

make the process better being remote. A new claim system will make it easier for

Phillip: 44:57

me to, yeah, because there's actually some technology where you can share stuff with your attorneys and stuff, even with your attorneys and stuff easier, but even like with teams. So teams is a great thing, Microsoft thing, And I'm not against zoom or anything, but my experience with, from the workforce is teams is you can share your screen so you can share whatever you need to show people. and there was certainly a learning curve for people to, to understand that more in a technology deficiency, because some of our people had desktop, so they don't have microphone. Phone's on those things. So they can't communicate. So then we're doing a conference call and then we're going to have shared teams too. So, and we've hired people in this too. So new guy that's never worked claims before is now coming into our claims. And so we had to get around that and it was from sharing through teams and talking on the phone. And then of course you have technology issues where you have lag time or you have, I, my Internet's not working well. So those are the things you have to wrestle through, for

Justin: 45:55

Sure. Well, what other, I guess, key pieces of information or ideas would you share with, with a company that, that is large, like arc best? Like what, what would you want someone who was listening that that's working for one of these big companies to take away and maybe today they're not a manager.

Phillip: 46:19

Yeah. I think it's really key for. Leadership's face to be known and heard from. so our, our leader, Judy, she puts out videos all the time to talk to us about what's going on. She has these like coffee break things where you can go, no, not during COVID, but they're doing a virtual one here. I think it's next week or something, where you can go meet and ask her questions, all that stuff. So there do not be. Isolated from your people. Go walk the floors, go talk to people, let them know who you are, as best as you can. And let that filter down to the rest of your leadership. So my boss, he knows people's stuff. He knows people's business. He knows what's going on in their life in my department, even though none of them directly report to him. So don't make sure you don't remove yourself.

Justin: 47:18

Stay engaged,

Phillip: 47:19

stay engaged. Yeah.

Justin: 47:20

know who your people

Phillip: 47:21

Because it's so important that they're not just a number.

Justin: 47:24

yeah, that's that's I think really solid advice.

Phillip: 47:27

thanks.

Justin: 47:29

Well, I guess as we wrap up, I would say, is there anyone else, but you know, that you would want to challenge to come on the show,

Phillip: 47:39

Tim Beasley, B five

Justin: 47:41

Tim Beasley. Okay.

Phillip: 47:42

at central Christian Church. and I think he's funny. And I think Pete you'll laugh a lot more than in any other podcast.

Justin: 47:51

Okay. So 10 Beasley's a pastor. I think that would be an interesting conversation because if you think about culture, okay.

Phillip: 47:58

go ahead. I'm

Justin: 47:59

No, no, no, no, no, no,

Phillip: 48:00

culture? No, go ahead.

Justin: 48:02

just, the culture is that, you know, it's one thing when you're talking about people that are employed. Yeah, it's incredibly different story when you have people that are all volunteers. So,

Phillip: 48:15

Talk about that. And he's got experience with hope campus here in town too. And I think he's the president of their board. So, there's also Tim Bailey, who is the owner and president of candy craze. he's a really great guy. And when I think of Tim, I think of integrity. so he, he's a really gate

Justin: 48:34

he's he's so he's one I need to. To reach out to all right. Well, I just want to thank you for coming on the show and just stepping through your experience at ArcBest and just the, the challenges that you faced. But I think more importantly, all of the positive things that have occurred within the context of the organization and within your department that have impacted people's lives in such a positive way. So thanks for coming on, sharing your story.

Phillip: 48:58

Thanks for having me. Sorry. I talk so much.

Justin: 49:00

Thanks.